1 00:00:02,020 --> 00:00:04,220 This programme contains very strong language from the start, 2 00:00:04,220 --> 00:00:06,060 distressing scenes and scenes of suicide 3 00:00:18,420 --> 00:00:20,460 They're allowed to dump untreated sewage. 4 00:00:20,460 --> 00:00:22,340 But that... that can't be right. 5 00:00:22,340 --> 00:00:24,460 There's something weird about this. 6 00:00:24,460 --> 00:00:27,060 I think that's poo. Of course it's not poo! 7 00:00:27,060 --> 00:00:28,580 And wash it off, scrub it. 8 00:00:28,580 --> 00:00:31,700 Heather's brain has lost the ability to control her vital organs. 9 00:00:31,700 --> 00:00:34,660 I think it's time we consider turning off her ventilators. 10 00:00:34,660 --> 00:00:36,540 We've got to get this to the Environment Agency. 11 00:00:36,540 --> 00:00:37,980 They're the sewage police. 12 00:00:37,980 --> 00:00:43,020 We want to strip out as much unnecessary regulation as possible. 13 00:00:43,020 --> 00:00:45,380 They make Del Boy look like a fucking amateur. 14 00:00:45,380 --> 00:00:49,020 When the everyday flows are missing, they're not treating the sewage. 15 00:00:49,020 --> 00:00:50,860 And if they're not treating the sewage, 16 00:00:50,860 --> 00:00:52,260 there's nowhere for it to go. 17 00:00:52,260 --> 00:00:53,540 Except into the river. 18 00:00:53,540 --> 00:00:56,060 Regulate yourselves and then just let us know 19 00:00:56,060 --> 00:00:58,340 if you've committed any crimes. 20 00:00:58,340 --> 00:01:01,540 They've dumped sewage a thousand times. 21 00:01:01,540 --> 00:01:04,260 These aren't accidents. It's a policy. 22 00:01:04,260 --> 00:01:06,820 This is starting to look like organised crime. 23 00:01:06,820 --> 00:01:08,340 Fuck! 24 00:01:10,660 --> 00:01:12,700 It's only now that it's coming to light. 25 00:01:12,700 --> 00:01:14,740 Thank goodness for the people's regulator. 26 00:01:14,740 --> 00:01:16,140 Peter Hammond, thank you. 27 00:01:16,140 --> 00:01:18,100 Thank goodness for Ash. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 28 00:01:18,100 --> 00:01:21,340 Thank goodness for the public, who are standing up 29 00:01:21,340 --> 00:01:24,660 and showing you what's really going on around here... 30 00:01:30,420 --> 00:01:33,260 Hi. Amy Christophers, 31 00:01:33,260 --> 00:01:36,260 Citizens Against South West Water. 32 00:01:36,260 --> 00:01:39,820 When Peter decoded these... these spreadsheets, 33 00:01:39,820 --> 00:01:43,060 we realised that the company 34 00:01:43,060 --> 00:01:47,340 had been dumping sewage into our river for years. 35 00:01:49,900 --> 00:01:51,740 Me and the machines, 36 00:01:51,740 --> 00:01:55,060 we are now investigating hundreds, 37 00:01:55,060 --> 00:01:58,460 hundreds of these sewage works using 38 00:01:58,460 --> 00:02:01,220 the data from each one of them. 39 00:02:03,020 --> 00:02:07,140 You know that I've got to go down to Whitstable this weekend. 40 00:02:07,140 --> 00:02:09,460 What, Saturday? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 41 00:02:10,980 --> 00:02:13,780 They've got these two people who've been working at the agency. 42 00:02:13,780 --> 00:02:16,980 Says that the Southern Water solicitors 43 00:02:16,980 --> 00:02:18,900 have been threatening them. 44 00:02:21,300 --> 00:02:23,100 You know about Charles and Camilla? 45 00:02:23,100 --> 00:02:25,340 Charles and Camilla were coming down for the 46 00:02:25,340 --> 00:02:27,180 Whitstable Oyster Festival, right? 47 00:02:29,620 --> 00:02:32,380 But when they tested them, they were so full of shit 48 00:02:32,380 --> 00:02:35,260 they had to give them oysters imported from France. 49 00:02:35,260 --> 00:02:36,740 All over the local news. 50 00:02:36,740 --> 00:02:40,220 Whitstable's oysters under threat from sewage leaks. 51 00:02:40,220 --> 00:02:43,820 Sewage spills threaten to wipe out Whitstable oyster farmers. 52 00:02:43,820 --> 00:02:45,220 People were very fucked off. 53 00:02:48,420 --> 00:02:52,540 Look at the amount of effluent. 54 00:02:53,740 --> 00:02:57,700 So, Southern Water, you're not releasing sewage into the sea? 55 00:02:57,700 --> 00:03:00,740 And by then, the Environment Agency had no choice, 56 00:03:00,740 --> 00:03:02,820 they had to launch an investigation. 57 00:03:02,820 --> 00:03:04,420 Made a mistake putting us in charge. 58 00:03:04,420 --> 00:03:07,140 We're the ones in the trenches. We take things seriously. 59 00:03:07,140 --> 00:03:08,900 There are still a few of us left. 60 00:03:08,900 --> 00:03:11,740 But we had no clue what we were letting ourselves in for, did we? 61 00:03:11,740 --> 00:03:13,060 You all right? No. 62 00:03:13,060 --> 00:03:14,860 What've you done? 63 00:03:14,860 --> 00:03:16,420 Put my back out this morning. 64 00:03:16,420 --> 00:03:18,940 INTERCOM RINGS Hello? 65 00:03:18,940 --> 00:03:21,060 Hello, it's John Bull from the Environment Agency. 66 00:03:21,060 --> 00:03:22,420 We've got an appointment. 67 00:03:22,420 --> 00:03:24,580 Tell them... Tell them I'm waving. Tell them I'm waving. 68 00:03:24,580 --> 00:03:25,580 HE CHUCKLES 69 00:03:26,940 --> 00:03:28,500 Bigger! Go on. Go on. 70 00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:30,900 Right... Jump up and down. All right, that's it, I'm not... 71 00:03:30,900 --> 00:03:33,220 Honestly, I can't stand up for too long today. Sit down, mate. 72 00:03:33,220 --> 00:03:35,020 We know you're in there. 73 00:03:35,020 --> 00:03:37,260 We are not leaving. We have an appointment. 74 00:03:37,260 --> 00:03:38,740 It's now... 75 00:03:38,740 --> 00:03:41,020 Cheese, mayo, spring onion. 76 00:03:41,020 --> 00:03:42,780 Almost looks like one word there. 77 00:03:45,060 --> 00:03:47,980 Press one to speak to no-one. Press two... 78 00:03:47,980 --> 00:03:50,220 To speak to no-one. ...to speak to no-one. 79 00:03:50,220 --> 00:03:51,660 Press three... 80 00:03:51,660 --> 00:03:54,500 HE GROANS ...to give up all hope. 81 00:03:54,500 --> 00:03:56,340 Same bollocks every works we went. 82 00:03:56,340 --> 00:04:00,500 Chichester, Millbrook, Slowhill, Thornham. 83 00:04:00,500 --> 00:04:03,100 And so many times just refusing us entry. 84 00:04:03,100 --> 00:04:06,140 Sometimes they just snatched the logbooks right out of our hands. 85 00:04:06,140 --> 00:04:08,060 Or just tell us to fuck off. 86 00:04:08,060 --> 00:04:10,220 When you get chicken from a supermarket, 87 00:04:10,220 --> 00:04:12,940 it's got that plastic covering on, right? Yeah. 88 00:04:12,940 --> 00:04:15,380 Lift that off, leave it for a few minutes 89 00:04:15,380 --> 00:04:19,020 because it automatically smells of fish and people get scared 90 00:04:19,020 --> 00:04:21,060 thinking they're going to get food poisoning and that's when they 91 00:04:21,060 --> 00:04:22,900 throw it away. But if you leave it for a bit, 92 00:04:22,900 --> 00:04:25,540 let the air come out, right, it just smells of chicken. 93 00:04:25,540 --> 00:04:27,340 Then you can cook it. HE MUMBLES WITH MOUTH FULL 94 00:04:27,340 --> 00:04:29,340 Oh. Hello. 95 00:04:29,340 --> 00:04:31,900 Hiya. Miss Humphries? 96 00:04:31,900 --> 00:04:34,780 Yeah. Yeah, well, we've got - we've made an appointment. 97 00:04:34,780 --> 00:04:36,860 Oh, sorry. Was that you guys? 98 00:04:36,860 --> 00:04:39,340 Yes! Yeah. Yeah, we've been here for hours, we've been buzzing. 99 00:04:39,340 --> 00:04:41,700 Oh... We had a 9.15. 100 00:04:41,700 --> 00:04:43,780 Oh, 9.15... 101 00:04:43,780 --> 00:04:46,340 Yes, 9... As opposed to? 102 00:04:46,340 --> 00:04:48,060 Uh... 3.15? Yeah. Yeah... Right. 103 00:04:48,060 --> 00:04:49,980 Can we just get in there, please? Can you buzz us in? 104 00:04:49,980 --> 00:04:51,300 He's got a bad back. 105 00:04:51,300 --> 00:04:52,700 All right. Come on. 106 00:04:52,700 --> 00:04:54,140 Oh, my God. 107 00:04:54,140 --> 00:04:56,700 What? Is your buzzer broken? No. 108 00:04:56,700 --> 00:04:59,380 You worked here long? Uh... 109 00:05:00,700 --> 00:05:03,260 I wouldn't say long. 110 00:05:03,260 --> 00:05:07,180 Yeah. There's two really nice stools you can sit on. 111 00:05:07,180 --> 00:05:09,180 So... Ooh. 112 00:05:09,180 --> 00:05:12,460 Poppi, can I just ask, these are the engineers' logbooks, right? 113 00:05:12,460 --> 00:05:15,620 Yeah. I think they go back, like, ten years. 114 00:05:15,620 --> 00:05:18,420 So how much do you read? 115 00:05:18,420 --> 00:05:20,380 Um, we've got enough to be getting on with. 116 00:05:20,380 --> 00:05:22,300 All right. We'll give you a shout if we need you. OK. 117 00:05:22,300 --> 00:05:24,220 Is that all right? Yeah. Thank you. Good. 118 00:05:24,220 --> 00:05:25,940 Great. Do you want me to go? 119 00:05:25,940 --> 00:05:28,140 Erm... Storm tank full... 120 00:05:28,140 --> 00:05:30,460 Yeah, storm tank overflow. 121 00:05:30,460 --> 00:05:32,380 They've had to triple reset. 122 00:05:32,380 --> 00:05:33,540 It's an illegal dump. Brilliant. 123 00:05:33,540 --> 00:05:35,740 You've got nothing there, right? What, in the status report? 124 00:05:35,740 --> 00:05:38,140 Yeah. But on these status reports, this is 12 as well. 125 00:05:38,140 --> 00:05:41,140 Mr Bull, David Marwood, Southern Water. 126 00:05:41,140 --> 00:05:43,380 Oh, good to meet you. Nice to meet you. Alex, nice to meet you. 127 00:05:43,380 --> 00:05:47,020 I am going to have to ask you to hand back these logbooks, please. 128 00:05:47,020 --> 00:05:48,940 Um, they are proprietary material. 129 00:05:50,300 --> 00:05:52,540 Sorry, I don't... I... These books... Mm-hm. 130 00:05:52,540 --> 00:05:54,500 ...they are the property of Southern Water. 131 00:05:54,500 --> 00:05:55,820 The engineer logbooks, yeah. 132 00:05:55,820 --> 00:05:57,900 You have gained access to them unlawfully. 133 00:05:57,900 --> 00:05:59,860 Uh, no. I'm asking you to hand them back. 134 00:05:59,860 --> 00:06:03,420 Unlawfully? These are the property of Southern Water. 135 00:06:03,420 --> 00:06:06,020 You gaining access to them is illegal. If you just hand it over. 136 00:06:06,020 --> 00:06:08,100 No-one wants to... I'm sorry. Sorry, what was your name again? 137 00:06:08,100 --> 00:06:10,340 What we're doing... What was your name again, sir? 138 00:06:10,340 --> 00:06:12,500 Mr Marwood, we are conducting an investigation 139 00:06:12,500 --> 00:06:15,180 under section 108 of the Environmental Act. 140 00:06:15,180 --> 00:06:16,820 We are well within our rights. 141 00:06:16,820 --> 00:06:18,820 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa. 142 00:06:18,820 --> 00:06:20,940 Poppi, put those down, we haven't finished with them. 143 00:06:20,940 --> 00:06:23,380 Mr Marwood, you're obstructing our investigation 144 00:06:23,380 --> 00:06:25,940 under section 108 of the Environmental Act. 145 00:06:25,940 --> 00:06:27,140 John... 146 00:06:27,140 --> 00:06:29,420 What you're doing is unlawful. Please leave. 147 00:06:30,860 --> 00:06:32,220 Let's just go. Let's just go. 148 00:06:33,460 --> 00:06:34,980 Give them here. 149 00:06:34,980 --> 00:06:37,580 We'll be back, Mr Marwood. 150 00:06:37,580 --> 00:06:39,260 Sandwiches. 151 00:06:43,620 --> 00:06:45,180 Criminal offence. 152 00:06:47,140 --> 00:06:49,300 You know it took us seven years. 153 00:06:49,300 --> 00:06:50,780 Seven years. 154 00:06:52,100 --> 00:06:54,220 We nicked some in the end. 155 00:06:54,220 --> 00:06:57,540 Southern Water has been sentenced to pay a record 156 00:06:57,540 --> 00:07:00,140 £90 million fine after pleading guilty... 157 00:07:00,140 --> 00:07:03,420 They plead guilty to 6,971 crimes, 158 00:07:03,420 --> 00:07:06,100 composited into 51 counts. 159 00:07:06,100 --> 00:07:10,820 First day. Each dump is punishable by five years in prison, 160 00:07:10,820 --> 00:07:13,020 but instead, the judge just fined them. 161 00:07:13,020 --> 00:07:16,180 90 million. The cost of doing business. 162 00:07:16,180 --> 00:07:20,540 They dumped 7,400 Olympic swimming pools of raw shite. 163 00:07:20,540 --> 00:07:22,460 With the knowledge of the board. 164 00:07:22,460 --> 00:07:24,580 They were making so much money, 165 00:07:24,580 --> 00:07:26,860 these fines weren't touching the sides. 166 00:07:26,860 --> 00:07:29,180 But this time, they were committed to a culture change, 167 00:07:29,180 --> 00:07:31,340 which is where Toby Willison came in. 168 00:07:31,340 --> 00:07:32,980 Who's Toby Willison? 169 00:07:32,980 --> 00:07:34,340 HE SCOFFS 170 00:07:34,340 --> 00:07:36,300 Oh, you don't know about Toby Willison? 171 00:07:37,980 --> 00:07:43,500 So Toby was number two in the Environment Agency under Sir James, 172 00:07:43,500 --> 00:07:46,300 but then Southern poached him a year before they were sentenced. 173 00:07:46,300 --> 00:07:48,620 They told the judge that he was going to run a clean-up operation 174 00:07:48,620 --> 00:07:51,140 within the company. 175 00:07:51,140 --> 00:07:53,860 He saw that as a mitigating factor, 176 00:07:53,860 --> 00:07:57,740 reducing the fine from 120 million to 90 million. 177 00:07:57,740 --> 00:08:03,100 So you hire the second most senior person at the regulator 178 00:08:03,100 --> 00:08:05,660 who is actually prosecuting you... 179 00:08:05,660 --> 00:08:09,700 And you get a £30 million discount on your fine. 180 00:08:09,700 --> 00:08:13,180 But that... Isn't... I mean, that's corruption, isn't it? 181 00:08:13,180 --> 00:08:17,060 Well, we can see how it might have the appearance of corruption, 182 00:08:17,060 --> 00:08:19,180 but it wasn't. 183 00:08:19,180 --> 00:08:21,340 You see, there's a revolving door. 184 00:08:21,340 --> 00:08:23,700 People leave the agency and go and work for the companies 185 00:08:23,700 --> 00:08:25,700 they're regulating all the time. 186 00:08:25,700 --> 00:08:28,060 It's just the way the industry works. 187 00:08:28,060 --> 00:08:31,020 When the agency brought the case against Southern, 188 00:08:31,020 --> 00:08:33,660 was this Toby Willison in charge? 189 00:08:33,660 --> 00:08:36,780 Well, we know he was acting chief executive at some point. 190 00:08:36,780 --> 00:08:39,980 Was he deciding who you guys were going to prosecute? 191 00:08:42,380 --> 00:08:45,100 We didn't prosecute any water company execs. 192 00:08:45,100 --> 00:08:46,700 We never have. 193 00:08:48,700 --> 00:08:52,860 You and I can probably remember as kids swimming in the sea, 194 00:08:52,860 --> 00:08:57,260 and being surrounded by floating faecal... 195 00:08:57,260 --> 00:08:58,900 Faecal material. 196 00:08:58,900 --> 00:09:00,900 I've certainly... I've experienced that now. 197 00:09:00,900 --> 00:09:02,260 Not... Not as kids. 198 00:09:02,260 --> 00:09:05,380 If you look at the quality of our bathing waters now, 199 00:09:05,380 --> 00:09:09,260 it is unrecognisable from 20, 25 years ago. 200 00:09:09,260 --> 00:09:13,180 And that is a direct result of the massive amount of 201 00:09:13,180 --> 00:09:18,140 investment the water companies have put into the networks. 202 00:09:18,140 --> 00:09:20,340 Remarkable. Well, I don't believe any of that. 203 00:09:20,340 --> 00:09:21,660 Well, James Murray joins us now... 204 00:09:21,660 --> 00:09:25,140 You're not going to believe this one. Toby Willison... 205 00:09:25,140 --> 00:09:28,020 Yeah, what about him? You know the lobby group 206 00:09:28,020 --> 00:09:30,420 funded by the water companies? Yeah. 207 00:09:30,420 --> 00:09:33,460 Willison has been on their board since 2019. 208 00:09:33,460 --> 00:09:35,180 You mean after he went to Southern Water? 209 00:09:35,180 --> 00:09:39,020 No, no, no, no, no. He's been on the board of British Water 210 00:09:39,020 --> 00:09:40,620 while he was working for the agency. 211 00:09:40,620 --> 00:09:44,020 That means that the number two at the Environment Agency 212 00:09:44,020 --> 00:09:46,460 had a side hustle working for the water companies. 213 00:09:49,580 --> 00:09:52,500 Well, water quality is now better than at any time 214 00:09:52,500 --> 00:09:54,740 since the Industrial Revolution, 215 00:09:54,740 --> 00:09:57,580 thanks to tougher regulations by the Environment Agency. 216 00:09:57,580 --> 00:10:00,500 So this is Toby Willison's boss, is it? Yeah. 217 00:10:00,500 --> 00:10:02,620 He's at the very, very top. 218 00:10:02,620 --> 00:10:05,780 Liz Truss was the environment minister and she made him 219 00:10:05,780 --> 00:10:07,340 Head of the Environment Agency. 220 00:10:07,340 --> 00:10:09,220 I don't know why she chose him. 221 00:10:09,220 --> 00:10:13,140 She seems to think the Environment Agency's part of the deep state. 222 00:10:13,140 --> 00:10:15,060 That's because the Environment Agency will not... 223 00:10:15,060 --> 00:10:17,620 What? ..hesitate to go after water companies who cause 224 00:10:17,620 --> 00:10:18,940 serious pollution. 225 00:10:18,940 --> 00:10:22,140 But he's at the very top, isn't it? He's the one we need to get to. 226 00:10:22,140 --> 00:10:23,620 He's our man. 227 00:10:33,140 --> 00:10:37,660 The agency said that she could have contracted E coli from dog poo. 228 00:10:37,660 --> 00:10:41,100 The little girl who died? Mm. I've been looking for another case 229 00:10:41,100 --> 00:10:44,860 where dog faeces has triggered an E coli... 230 00:10:44,860 --> 00:10:47,300 And you can't find one? ..outbreak. No, no... 231 00:10:47,300 --> 00:10:49,380 PHONE RINGS There aren't any. 232 00:10:52,580 --> 00:10:54,540 Hi, is that Julie? 233 00:10:54,540 --> 00:10:56,220 Hi, this is Chris Hines. 234 00:10:57,340 --> 00:11:01,300 Yes, I work for an organisation called Surfers Against Sewage. 235 00:11:01,300 --> 00:11:04,580 Listen, Julie, I'm down at the beach at Dawlish Warren. 236 00:11:05,900 --> 00:11:08,100 I think we really need to speak. 237 00:11:08,100 --> 00:11:09,580 No, I've always been a surfer. 238 00:11:10,900 --> 00:11:13,620 I moved to Cornwall when I was 19, 239 00:11:13,620 --> 00:11:16,460 lived in a caravan, just so I could surf every day. 240 00:11:16,460 --> 00:11:18,780 But everyone was getting sick all the time. 241 00:11:18,780 --> 00:11:21,340 There was this one day when I came up under this huge wave, 242 00:11:21,340 --> 00:11:24,180 I found a sanitary towel stuck to the back of my head 243 00:11:24,180 --> 00:11:27,820 and a turd lodged between my chest and the board. 244 00:11:27,820 --> 00:11:30,300 I thought, "This has got to stop." 245 00:11:30,300 --> 00:11:33,780 So we founded Surfers Against Sewage in my caravan, 246 00:11:33,780 --> 00:11:36,460 and it was not long after that we all went to Parliament 247 00:11:36,460 --> 00:11:38,180 in our wet suits. 248 00:11:38,180 --> 00:11:40,620 We were trying to get the message out about clean water, 249 00:11:40,620 --> 00:11:42,620 and we didn't do a good enough job. 250 00:11:42,620 --> 00:11:47,060 I picked Dawlish because it had a blue flag. 251 00:11:47,060 --> 00:11:49,500 Of course you did, because the blue flag is the gold standard 252 00:11:49,500 --> 00:11:51,060 for water quality. 253 00:11:51,060 --> 00:11:53,700 It's meant to mean that the water's clean. 254 00:11:53,700 --> 00:11:57,380 The council, they've set up an investigation team. 255 00:11:57,380 --> 00:12:00,100 If it finds that sewage killed Heather, 256 00:12:00,100 --> 00:12:02,860 it's going to be a calamity for business here. 257 00:12:02,860 --> 00:12:05,420 My guess is they're going to be looking for any explanation, 258 00:12:05,420 --> 00:12:07,220 so long as it's not sewage. 259 00:12:08,580 --> 00:12:11,980 Thanks all for being here at this start-up meeting 260 00:12:11,980 --> 00:12:13,780 for the Outbreak Investigation team. 261 00:12:13,780 --> 00:12:18,020 Sorry, I wonder if we should be calling it an outbreak. 262 00:12:18,020 --> 00:12:20,460 It feels like the kind of term that could alarm people. 263 00:12:20,460 --> 00:12:23,220 I think cluster might be better messaging. 264 00:12:23,220 --> 00:12:25,460 Of course, the quality of the bathing water 265 00:12:25,460 --> 00:12:27,460 at Dawlish is consistently high. 266 00:12:27,460 --> 00:12:29,300 That's a really good point. I mean, that will be 267 00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:30,540 reflected in the report. 268 00:12:30,540 --> 00:12:32,580 We know there have been some complaints 269 00:12:32,580 --> 00:12:34,500 about sewage on the beaches. 270 00:12:34,500 --> 00:12:36,300 Er, thanks, Sarah, that's right. 271 00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:39,140 We were contacted by members of the public about this, 272 00:12:39,140 --> 00:12:41,140 and we did send inspectors out. 273 00:12:41,140 --> 00:12:45,060 In the event, there'd been just a single spill on July 24th, 274 00:12:45,060 --> 00:12:48,060 a full four days before the Preens visited the beach, 275 00:12:48,060 --> 00:12:51,580 so it's very unlikely that the spill could have had an impact. 276 00:12:51,580 --> 00:12:54,260 And we know that although the Preens went to the beach 277 00:12:54,260 --> 00:12:56,180 on several occasions, 278 00:12:56,180 --> 00:12:57,860 Heather never swam in the water. 279 00:12:57,860 --> 00:13:01,700 So with sewage looking unlikely as a culprit, 280 00:13:01,700 --> 00:13:05,100 we're focusing on fast food and dog faeces. 281 00:13:05,100 --> 00:13:07,300 Mr and Mrs Preen? 282 00:13:07,300 --> 00:13:11,500 We were so sorry to hear about Heather. 283 00:13:11,500 --> 00:13:13,740 Yeah, it must be such a difficult time. 284 00:13:15,060 --> 00:13:17,780 But we just need to ask you a few questions. 285 00:13:17,780 --> 00:13:20,500 Could I ask you about the fast food your family's 286 00:13:20,500 --> 00:13:22,340 been eating since you got to Dawlish? 287 00:13:22,340 --> 00:13:24,260 So you want to know what we had to eat? 288 00:13:24,260 --> 00:13:26,060 Any takeaways? Burgers? 289 00:13:26,060 --> 00:13:29,260 No, we ate in the chalet most nights. Chicken shops, chippies? 290 00:13:29,260 --> 00:13:31,820 Any fast food at all? No, we didn't have any burgers. 291 00:13:31,820 --> 00:13:33,060 We didn't have any fast food. 292 00:13:33,060 --> 00:13:36,060 To be honest, we were on a bit of a budget, so... 293 00:13:36,060 --> 00:13:39,580 When you went to the beach, how much dog poo did you see? 294 00:13:39,580 --> 00:13:41,780 We didn't see any dog droppings. 295 00:13:41,780 --> 00:13:45,300 We saw human sewage. Sorry, why do you want to know about dog poo? 296 00:13:45,300 --> 00:13:48,100 Because if Heather had stepped in something, she'd have told us. 297 00:13:48,100 --> 00:13:50,740 We have to look into every possible source. 298 00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:56,500 So if you don't know what caused the infection, 299 00:13:56,500 --> 00:13:59,900 then you need to shut down the beach, don't you? Yeah. 300 00:13:59,900 --> 00:14:02,540 Because the children could get this and my daughter's dead, 301 00:14:02,540 --> 00:14:04,980 so you need to shut it down. 302 00:14:04,980 --> 00:14:06,420 That's not going to happen. 303 00:14:07,740 --> 00:14:11,580 After the investigation, there's going to be an inquest. 304 00:14:11,580 --> 00:14:13,460 I can get you a lawyer. 305 00:14:15,340 --> 00:14:18,900 There was an unplanned, negligible spill on the 24th, 306 00:14:18,900 --> 00:14:21,260 four days before the Preens visited the beach. 307 00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:25,140 The Dawlish coast is a high dispersal area. 308 00:14:25,140 --> 00:14:27,780 The winds and currents are sufficiently strong 309 00:14:27,780 --> 00:14:30,380 that any sewage would have been dispersed long before 310 00:14:30,380 --> 00:14:32,140 the Preens visited the beach. 311 00:14:32,140 --> 00:14:37,740 E coli O157 is not routinely found in sewage and it's rare in water. 312 00:14:37,740 --> 00:14:41,740 The sea breaks down the bacteria, so there's no record of an E coli 313 00:14:41,740 --> 00:14:45,980 O157 infection from sea bathing in the UK. 314 00:14:45,980 --> 00:14:50,700 What kind of health risk would sewage on a footpath present? 315 00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:53,860 It's not for the Environment Agency to comment on a health risk. 316 00:14:56,260 --> 00:15:00,620 You don't have a view about whether sewage is a health risk? 317 00:15:00,620 --> 00:15:02,820 It's not within the remit or the expertise 318 00:15:02,820 --> 00:15:05,980 of the Environment Agency to comment on a public health risk. 319 00:15:11,980 --> 00:15:14,140 We walked along the coastal path every day. 320 00:15:16,580 --> 00:15:20,100 There was a discharge coming out from the pipe 321 00:15:20,100 --> 00:15:22,100 and it had made a puddle, you see. 322 00:15:24,380 --> 00:15:25,620 How big was the puddle? 323 00:15:26,940 --> 00:15:28,820 I don't know, three feet maybe. 324 00:15:30,620 --> 00:15:33,100 And it was spilling out onto the beach. 325 00:15:35,180 --> 00:15:36,860 It smelt like faeces. 326 00:15:38,420 --> 00:15:41,180 And I could see there was little bits 327 00:15:41,180 --> 00:15:43,260 of pink toilet paper in it. 328 00:15:46,180 --> 00:15:48,260 So you walked around it? 329 00:15:48,260 --> 00:15:50,100 No, we jumped over it. 330 00:15:52,220 --> 00:15:53,900 Except, um... 331 00:15:55,780 --> 00:15:57,900 ...Heather didn't manage to clear it, and, um... 332 00:16:02,300 --> 00:16:04,820 She landed in the puddle that was coming from the pipe? 333 00:16:04,820 --> 00:16:06,300 Yeah. 334 00:16:06,300 --> 00:16:07,860 You couldn't stop her? 335 00:16:09,460 --> 00:16:11,020 I... 336 00:16:13,020 --> 00:16:14,620 I didn't stop her. 337 00:16:16,540 --> 00:16:18,340 We didn't know. 338 00:16:19,860 --> 00:16:22,140 You say you saw the... 339 00:16:22,140 --> 00:16:24,380 ...the puddle every day? Yeah. 340 00:16:25,420 --> 00:16:28,500 You're aware that the Environment Agency has been unable 341 00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:30,980 to confirm any subsequent spills? 342 00:16:30,980 --> 00:16:32,860 That there was only one confirmed report of a spill 343 00:16:32,860 --> 00:16:34,660 during your holiday. 344 00:16:35,820 --> 00:16:38,580 Why do you think you were the only one who saw the puddle? 345 00:16:38,580 --> 00:16:40,180 I don't know. 346 00:16:42,260 --> 00:16:43,340 But I saw it. 347 00:16:43,340 --> 00:16:45,300 Is it possible that you've confused things in your memory? 348 00:16:45,300 --> 00:16:46,780 No. I saw it. 349 00:16:47,980 --> 00:16:49,780 We all saw it, didn't we? 350 00:16:53,180 --> 00:16:56,420 There was a puddle and a little stream of poo. 351 00:16:59,460 --> 00:17:02,020 In the days running up to the Preens' visit, 352 00:17:02,020 --> 00:17:07,300 the Environment Agency received at least 14 complaints 353 00:17:07,300 --> 00:17:09,580 about sewage on the beach. 354 00:17:09,580 --> 00:17:12,660 In the week before Heather Preen fell ill, 355 00:17:12,660 --> 00:17:16,740 I treated two children with febrile gastroenteritis. 356 00:17:16,740 --> 00:17:20,180 The children had been swimming at the town beach 357 00:17:20,180 --> 00:17:23,260 and then found themselves immersed in raw sewage. 358 00:17:24,420 --> 00:17:27,300 I reported it but heard nothing more. 359 00:17:27,300 --> 00:17:30,500 In the days after the Preens' visit, 360 00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:32,980 Dawlish was inundated with faeces. 361 00:17:34,140 --> 00:17:37,700 Big influxes of sewage debris were turning up on the beach. 362 00:17:37,700 --> 00:17:41,020 Our cleaners logged the number of sanitary towels. 363 00:17:41,020 --> 00:17:44,700 South West Water pays contractors to clean up the sewage by hand. 364 00:17:44,700 --> 00:17:48,100 Resort staff were cleaning away sewage as a matter of urgency. 365 00:17:52,340 --> 00:17:55,500 At least six other children were infected with the E coli virus 366 00:17:55,500 --> 00:17:57,900 after being at the beach that day. 367 00:18:01,180 --> 00:18:03,700 Sophie Smith was seven-months-old. 368 00:18:05,380 --> 00:18:06,900 Back home in Walsall, 369 00:18:06,900 --> 00:18:09,620 she was diagnosed with an E coli O157 infection. 370 00:18:11,820 --> 00:18:16,060 11-year-old Jane Duncan was hospitalised 371 00:18:16,060 --> 00:18:18,900 with an E coli O157 infection. 372 00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:24,340 She bled through her anus 50 times in the first few days 373 00:18:24,340 --> 00:18:26,940 and asked her parents if she was going to die. 374 00:18:29,300 --> 00:18:32,020 Ashley, Ruby and Dylan Hamlyn, 375 00:18:32,020 --> 00:18:34,420 along with their mum Claire, were all infected. 376 00:18:35,740 --> 00:18:38,780 Claire drove her son Dylan to hospital 377 00:18:38,780 --> 00:18:41,860 after they both began bleeding from their backsides. 378 00:18:44,020 --> 00:18:45,940 Doctors wouldn't admit Claire at first, 379 00:18:45,940 --> 00:18:48,820 so she cleared up her own blood and vomit from the toilets. 380 00:18:52,460 --> 00:18:56,060 Later, Dylan's sisters Ashley and Ruby were also admitted. 381 00:19:06,580 --> 00:19:09,420 There's no cure for E coli. 382 00:19:09,420 --> 00:19:12,300 They keep you on a drip and hope for the best. 383 00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:17,660 Dylan's screaming was so frightening, 384 00:19:17,660 --> 00:19:19,860 his dad thought everyone was going to die. 385 00:19:21,860 --> 00:19:26,300 E coli 0157 is a pathogen that thrives in sewage. 386 00:19:26,300 --> 00:19:29,220 It can survive in water for up to 91 days. 387 00:19:30,660 --> 00:19:35,580 Swimming in water infected with E coli has been identified 388 00:19:35,580 --> 00:19:38,860 as the cause of multiple outbreaks. 389 00:19:38,860 --> 00:19:41,740 We tested the waters around Dawlish. 390 00:19:41,740 --> 00:19:45,100 Of the 45 samples taken, only two came back positive 391 00:19:45,100 --> 00:19:47,660 for E coli O157. 392 00:19:47,660 --> 00:19:50,220 The infected families were all on a part of the beach 393 00:19:50,220 --> 00:19:51,860 where dogs were allowed. 394 00:19:51,860 --> 00:19:55,740 They could all have crisscrossed the site of an infected dog faeces. 395 00:19:57,660 --> 00:20:00,540 None of us were on the same part of the beach. 396 00:20:00,540 --> 00:20:02,460 We never saw any dog poo. 397 00:20:03,500 --> 00:20:05,260 This map doesn't make any sense. 398 00:20:06,620 --> 00:20:09,020 The families weren't on the same part of the beach. 399 00:20:09,020 --> 00:20:10,900 No-one saw any dog faeces, 400 00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:14,180 and there's no good evidence of transmission from dogs anywhere. 401 00:20:16,020 --> 00:20:19,780 South West water and the Environment Agency present this 402 00:20:19,780 --> 00:20:24,180 improbable theory whilst choosing to ignore repeated 403 00:20:24,180 --> 00:20:26,900 substantial sewage pollution. 404 00:20:26,900 --> 00:20:29,580 The agency did carry out tests on the sea water. 405 00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:34,380 But the testing took place on the 27th of August... 406 00:20:35,700 --> 00:20:39,980 ...a full month after the infected families had visited the beach. 407 00:20:47,060 --> 00:20:48,380 Cunts. 408 00:20:49,820 --> 00:20:51,820 Fucking cunts, Jule. I know. 409 00:20:53,980 --> 00:20:55,860 They twisted everything. I know they did. 410 00:21:00,340 --> 00:21:03,700 I've let Heather down, haven't I? You've not let her down. 411 00:21:03,700 --> 00:21:05,900 You think I can ask Henry if I can do it again? 412 00:21:05,900 --> 00:21:08,180 No. What are you on about? You've done it. 413 00:21:08,180 --> 00:21:09,900 You stuck up for her. 414 00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:14,980 We saw... You stuck up for this family. 415 00:21:20,460 --> 00:21:22,340 We saw them sanitary towels, Jule. 416 00:21:24,420 --> 00:21:26,260 We saw the toilet roll. We... 417 00:21:28,660 --> 00:21:30,100 Didn't we? 418 00:21:32,740 --> 00:21:34,820 And we let our babies go back out. 419 00:21:37,900 --> 00:21:39,980 Not here, not here. We did, though. 420 00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:57,100 At first, they said it was something we had to eat, 421 00:21:57,100 --> 00:21:59,100 but it wasn't, so... 422 00:21:59,100 --> 00:22:01,020 Then they came up with dog poo. 423 00:22:03,660 --> 00:22:06,660 But how could all of our kids walk through the same bit 424 00:22:06,660 --> 00:22:08,580 of poo without remembering? 425 00:22:10,700 --> 00:22:12,940 I would know if my child had touched poo. 426 00:22:17,620 --> 00:22:22,860 The one thing all our kids did do was go into the water. 427 00:22:22,860 --> 00:22:25,820 We saw the toilet roll. 428 00:22:25,820 --> 00:22:27,900 We saw the sanitary towels. 429 00:22:29,060 --> 00:22:31,980 You can't tell us we didn't see it because we did. We saw it. 430 00:22:37,460 --> 00:22:41,020 I know now we should have turned away from that beach. 431 00:22:42,820 --> 00:22:44,460 I know that. 432 00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:48,220 Heather's dad knows that. 433 00:22:51,220 --> 00:22:52,780 We will live with that. 434 00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:57,420 We chose Dawlish because of the blue flag, and we trusted it. 435 00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:01,580 The gold standard of water quality. 436 00:23:04,660 --> 00:23:06,540 We didn't know it was a lie. 437 00:23:12,260 --> 00:23:16,060 No-one should have died the way my Heather died. 438 00:23:20,140 --> 00:23:24,420 She was poisoned and the anti-sickness tablets 439 00:23:24,420 --> 00:23:27,660 they gave her meant her little body couldn't get rid of it. 440 00:23:29,980 --> 00:23:32,980 She was liquidised from the inside. 441 00:23:38,860 --> 00:23:41,900 We went on holiday, a family of four, 442 00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:44,020 and we've come back a family of three. 443 00:23:54,860 --> 00:23:57,180 And we don't want any money, don't worry. 444 00:23:57,180 --> 00:23:58,500 SHE SCOFFS 445 00:23:58,500 --> 00:24:01,300 We don't want your money, so... 446 00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:03,100 We just... 447 00:24:03,100 --> 00:24:04,940 We want something to change. 448 00:24:07,380 --> 00:24:09,620 We don't want another family to go to the beach 449 00:24:09,620 --> 00:24:11,540 and come back with one less child. 450 00:24:16,100 --> 00:24:18,380 And you're still dumping sewage. 451 00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:20,860 And you... 452 00:24:22,020 --> 00:24:25,060 You're the Environment Agency. 453 00:24:25,060 --> 00:24:28,380 You're supposed to look after us, and you are sat here 454 00:24:28,380 --> 00:24:31,740 in this court and you're swapping notes with South West Water. Why? 455 00:24:34,020 --> 00:24:37,140 And it took you... It took them one month to go looking 456 00:24:37,140 --> 00:24:39,860 for the E coli that killed my daughter. 457 00:24:41,380 --> 00:24:43,060 Why would you do that? 458 00:24:45,100 --> 00:24:46,940 What is this? 459 00:24:50,540 --> 00:24:53,340 I... I would not wish... 460 00:24:53,340 --> 00:24:55,980 ...what has happened to us on my worst enemy. 461 00:24:58,780 --> 00:25:00,940 I wouldn't wish it on your kids. 462 00:25:02,860 --> 00:25:04,900 So, please... 463 00:25:07,380 --> 00:25:09,380 ...close the beach. Please. 464 00:25:12,940 --> 00:25:14,980 Before this happens to somebody else. 465 00:25:14,980 --> 00:25:16,700 Please. 466 00:25:28,700 --> 00:25:34,180 Following an inquisition taken for our sovereign lady, the Queen, 467 00:25:34,180 --> 00:25:39,300 touching on the death of Heather Amy Preen. 468 00:25:41,060 --> 00:25:44,420 The cause of death was E coli poisoning. 469 00:25:46,820 --> 00:25:50,420 The deceased probably contracted E coli whilst visiting 470 00:25:50,420 --> 00:25:56,020 the beach at Dawlish Warren on the 24th of July, 471 00:25:56,020 --> 00:25:59,540 along with other children who survived. 472 00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:06,980 I recommend that consideration be given to a notice 473 00:26:06,980 --> 00:26:09,860 warning the public of sewage discharges. 474 00:26:11,060 --> 00:26:13,460 And that an ultraviolet treatment should be added 475 00:26:13,460 --> 00:26:15,820 to the sewage works at Dawlish. 476 00:26:15,820 --> 00:26:19,100 Consideration should be given to greater enforcement 477 00:26:19,100 --> 00:26:21,540 of the dogs on the beach ban. 478 00:26:41,140 --> 00:26:43,500 June 2019, 479 00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:45,660 Sir James Bevan, Environment Agency. 480 00:26:45,660 --> 00:26:49,340 "Dear Sir James, I wrote to you to raise concerns about 481 00:26:49,340 --> 00:26:52,860 "a serious integrity issue involving the agency. 482 00:26:52,860 --> 00:26:55,540 "I did not receive any acknowledgement." 483 00:26:55,540 --> 00:26:56,940 Yes, Sir James Bevan. 484 00:26:58,340 --> 00:27:01,020 This is Ash Smith, Windrush Against Sewage Pollution. 485 00:27:01,020 --> 00:27:03,260 We sent an email. We sent a lot of emails. 486 00:27:03,260 --> 00:27:05,660 Ash. What? 487 00:27:05,660 --> 00:27:07,580 Ash? Yes, I'll hold. What? I'm on the bloody phone. 488 00:27:07,580 --> 00:27:09,460 They want us to come in. Who? 489 00:27:15,300 --> 00:27:17,100 Fucking hell! 490 00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:18,860 Belly of the beast. 491 00:27:25,180 --> 00:27:27,540 Very nice to meet you. Hello there, Lucy Hart. 492 00:27:27,540 --> 00:27:28,940 Please do sit down. 493 00:27:28,940 --> 00:27:31,340 Sir James is on the... on the premises, I take it? 494 00:27:31,340 --> 00:27:33,180 Um, he's... No, he's not. I think he's at a meeting. 495 00:27:33,180 --> 00:27:35,300 He's been called out to an external... 496 00:27:35,300 --> 00:27:38,500 I was hoping he might be even present in the meeting. 497 00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:40,740 Not this kind of meeting, no, he's... He's... 498 00:27:40,740 --> 00:27:45,420 I just wanted to start with a few questions about integrity. 499 00:27:45,420 --> 00:27:49,580 Because I see that the agency's former director of operations 500 00:27:49,580 --> 00:27:53,540 joined the board of British Water while he was working for the agency, 501 00:27:53,540 --> 00:27:58,260 which means that your COO was moonlighting 502 00:27:58,260 --> 00:28:01,300 for the water companies while he was regulating them. 503 00:28:01,300 --> 00:28:03,420 So what do we... Oh, dear. What do we call that? 504 00:28:03,420 --> 00:28:05,900 Well, I think moonlighting's a pretty strong word. 505 00:28:05,900 --> 00:28:08,780 Um... Definition. What I would say is that, 506 00:28:08,780 --> 00:28:11,300 um, Toby Willison no longer works for the agency. 507 00:28:11,300 --> 00:28:13,860 That's the first point, and when he decided... 508 00:28:13,860 --> 00:28:17,580 But how is that a fact, when he was here, though? 509 00:28:17,580 --> 00:28:19,980 The fact that he's not here doesn't... I'm coming on to that. 510 00:28:19,980 --> 00:28:22,660 His declarations, with all due respect, 511 00:28:22,660 --> 00:28:25,100 his declarations of interest were noted at the time. Right. 512 00:28:25,100 --> 00:28:27,180 And any risks at all, and we do take these things 513 00:28:27,180 --> 00:28:29,260 very seriously, were appropriately managed. 514 00:28:29,260 --> 00:28:32,460 Yes, but then Mr Willison was hired by a water company 515 00:28:32,460 --> 00:28:37,220 as it stood trial on 51 counts of sewage dumping. 516 00:28:37,220 --> 00:28:40,460 How is that not a case of conflict of interest? 517 00:28:40,460 --> 00:28:42,940 Ah, well, very clear rules, 518 00:28:42,940 --> 00:28:45,780 which was what I was going to say, very clear, clear rules 519 00:28:45,780 --> 00:28:48,940 around conflict of interest were put in place as soon as 520 00:28:48,940 --> 00:28:51,420 Mr Willison decided to take up his new job. 521 00:28:51,420 --> 00:28:54,700 So he stepped out of any relevant discussions. 522 00:28:54,700 --> 00:28:57,260 We did everything we could to... 523 00:28:57,260 --> 00:29:00,420 Well, the judge ruled that all criminal activity 524 00:29:00,420 --> 00:29:03,020 in that case was masterminded from the top of the company. 525 00:29:03,020 --> 00:29:05,260 So was Mr Willison involved in the decision 526 00:29:05,260 --> 00:29:07,820 not to prosecute Southern executives? 527 00:29:07,820 --> 00:29:10,140 Well, see... We... I mean, we can't comment on that. 528 00:29:10,140 --> 00:29:11,780 No, we can't comment. 529 00:29:11,780 --> 00:29:14,620 Yeah, we don't talk about internal meetings. Mm. 530 00:29:16,060 --> 00:29:18,940 Well, how many water company executives 531 00:29:18,940 --> 00:29:21,140 has the agency prosecuted? 532 00:29:21,140 --> 00:29:23,780 Well, criminal prosecution is quite a high bar. 533 00:29:25,740 --> 00:29:29,580 That's it? If we had evidence that the offence was serious enough, 534 00:29:29,580 --> 00:29:31,220 we wouldn't hesitate to prosecute, 535 00:29:31,220 --> 00:29:33,380 but there is no substantiated evidence. 536 00:29:33,380 --> 00:29:35,260 We've just given you evidence, we've told you. 537 00:29:35,260 --> 00:29:37,060 But it's not substantiated. 538 00:29:37,060 --> 00:29:40,780 A board-sanctioned plan for seven years 539 00:29:40,780 --> 00:29:43,340 of continuous dumping was not enough evidence? 540 00:29:46,540 --> 00:29:49,580 Thanks so much. I've got to dash. We'll be in touch. Thank you. 541 00:29:49,580 --> 00:29:52,180 Thank you so much. Thanks so much. 542 00:29:52,180 --> 00:29:54,140 I hope that goes well. 543 00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:08,140 I'm going to get another one. 544 00:30:10,540 --> 00:30:13,580 You're going to have another Flake 99? 545 00:30:13,580 --> 00:30:16,900 Eileen thinks I've got an obsessive streak. Huh. 546 00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:18,780 Well, she's not wrong, is she? 547 00:30:23,820 --> 00:30:25,980 What the hell was that? 548 00:30:25,980 --> 00:30:29,140 Well, did you think they'd be more grateful 549 00:30:29,140 --> 00:30:31,060 for our disclosures about revolving doors? 550 00:30:31,060 --> 00:30:33,140 They really think that that was all right. 551 00:30:33,140 --> 00:30:35,500 Working for both of them at the same time. 552 00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:37,580 And I think you're taking it personally. I am. 553 00:30:37,580 --> 00:30:39,580 You know, I mean, for me, it's an occupational hazard. 554 00:30:39,580 --> 00:30:41,180 I feel like I've been beaten up. 555 00:30:42,260 --> 00:30:44,620 That's how I feel, and I've never been beaten up. 556 00:30:44,620 --> 00:30:47,740 We're getting somewhere. We're making a difference. 557 00:30:47,740 --> 00:30:50,660 We're clearly up against something bigger. 558 00:32:12,620 --> 00:32:15,300 Right, see, now she's not going to be back from football 559 00:32:15,300 --> 00:32:17,420 till about seven, so... 560 00:32:18,860 --> 00:32:21,260 All right. Just tell her to put that in the micro. 561 00:32:23,940 --> 00:32:25,620 You look nice. 562 00:32:27,620 --> 00:32:29,380 What is it? 563 00:32:30,980 --> 00:32:32,580 Um... 564 00:32:34,620 --> 00:32:36,020 You know, um... 565 00:32:37,380 --> 00:32:39,420 ...Tony's got that flat down the Arundel Road... 566 00:32:40,700 --> 00:32:42,660 ...he's not using? 567 00:32:42,660 --> 00:32:45,300 Well, um, he said I can stop there for a bit if I want. 568 00:32:45,300 --> 00:32:46,980 You know, just... 569 00:32:48,940 --> 00:32:51,140 Just while I do the Tesco job, like. 570 00:32:53,260 --> 00:32:54,820 Yeah. Uh... 571 00:32:56,020 --> 00:32:57,460 Good idea. 572 00:32:58,660 --> 00:33:00,900 It might be better, mightn't it? Yeah... 573 00:33:02,060 --> 00:33:03,260 Yeah. 574 00:33:05,820 --> 00:33:07,900 I'm going to be late, so... Yeah. 575 00:33:12,980 --> 00:33:14,620 All right? 576 00:33:19,620 --> 00:33:21,420 All right. Yeah. 577 00:33:29,060 --> 00:33:30,820 See ya. See ya. 578 00:33:39,940 --> 00:33:41,740 TV PLAYS 579 00:33:44,140 --> 00:33:45,580 DOORBELL RINGS 580 00:33:46,860 --> 00:33:49,580 You all right, bab? You all right, Dad? 581 00:33:49,580 --> 00:33:51,500 I've got your pizza in there if you want it. 582 00:33:51,500 --> 00:33:53,140 I'm not hungry. 583 00:33:54,580 --> 00:33:57,900 I've got a project, so I might just... 584 00:33:57,900 --> 00:34:00,740 All right, yeah, we'll have it later, shall we? Yeah. 585 00:34:00,740 --> 00:34:03,020 Um, if we get hungry. All right. 586 00:34:14,980 --> 00:34:16,860 Do you want anything, bab? 587 00:34:21,100 --> 00:34:22,820 TV PLAYS 588 00:34:22,820 --> 00:34:24,580 DOORBELL RINGS 589 00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:30,460 You all right, bab? 590 00:34:30,460 --> 00:34:32,900 My God, look at you. 591 00:34:32,900 --> 00:34:34,620 What's going on, Mum? 592 00:35:00,860 --> 00:35:02,420 Watch the video. Yeah. 593 00:35:02,420 --> 00:35:05,340 It's really not as bad as you think it is. 594 00:35:05,340 --> 00:35:07,740 No, it's not. OK. Mm... 595 00:35:07,740 --> 00:35:09,580 There it is. Is there sound on this? 596 00:35:09,580 --> 00:35:11,380 Uh, no. No. 597 00:35:11,380 --> 00:35:14,300 So there it is, as you can see. Mm. Oh, no. Yeah. 598 00:35:17,900 --> 00:35:19,540 Yeah... Yeah. 599 00:35:19,540 --> 00:35:22,260 Oh... We actually think it's, um, 600 00:35:22,260 --> 00:35:24,500 agricultural run-off... Right. Yeah. 601 00:35:24,500 --> 00:35:27,100 ...actually. What, from farms? Mm-hm. 602 00:35:27,100 --> 00:35:29,340 It's almost certainly farm run-off. Mm. 603 00:35:29,340 --> 00:35:30,980 Almost certainly. Yeah. 604 00:35:30,980 --> 00:35:33,340 We believe. Yeah. Um, and we do have a... 605 00:35:33,340 --> 00:35:35,780 We do have a responsibility to report that 606 00:35:35,780 --> 00:35:38,260 to the Environment Agency. Pollution... Spills... 607 00:35:38,260 --> 00:35:42,180 So we'd say... Blimey. Um, this is due to the farm. Mm-hm. 608 00:35:42,180 --> 00:35:43,860 The farms. 609 00:35:43,860 --> 00:35:46,860 And that is what has led to this... Overspill. 610 00:35:46,860 --> 00:35:48,780 ...overspill. Mm-hm. That's really nice. 611 00:35:48,780 --> 00:35:50,980 I love that as well. That was very good. Agricultural... 612 00:35:50,980 --> 00:35:56,060 So, though there have been storm-activated overspill, 613 00:35:56,060 --> 00:35:58,820 the discolouration of the water is 614 00:35:58,820 --> 00:36:01,580 because of agricultural run-off. 615 00:36:01,580 --> 00:36:04,460 Exactly. Yeah. We are sorry about this, 616 00:36:04,460 --> 00:36:07,700 and we will do everything in our power 617 00:36:07,700 --> 00:36:09,780 to improve the situation. Mm. 618 00:36:09,780 --> 00:36:11,820 But some of it is not our fault. Yeah. 619 00:36:11,820 --> 00:36:14,020 Well, I think if we can just own it. It is not our fault. Yeah. 620 00:36:14,020 --> 00:36:15,820 Exactly. I think we just... We just own it. 621 00:36:15,820 --> 00:36:18,700 It's farmers' fault. Yeah, absolutely. I can use the hands, 622 00:36:18,700 --> 00:36:22,660 and I think that helps the audience to feel like I'm one of them. 623 00:36:22,660 --> 00:36:25,500 Yeah. You very much do fit in as well with one of the... 624 00:36:25,500 --> 00:36:28,620 You know, you're... You're almost one of them in many ways. 625 00:36:28,620 --> 00:36:30,460 Yes. Yes... 626 00:36:30,460 --> 00:36:33,180 I thought high-vis, a pair of those wraparound 627 00:36:33,180 --> 00:36:35,300 goggles that kind of skiers wear. You've got those Lizzie, yeah. 628 00:36:35,300 --> 00:36:36,940 And a hard hat. 629 00:36:36,940 --> 00:36:40,220 I hear your frustration, I really do. 630 00:36:40,220 --> 00:36:42,460 Smashed it. I thought it was amazing. 631 00:36:42,460 --> 00:36:44,540 So you know we've been getting a lot of these 632 00:36:44,540 --> 00:36:47,180 sickness reports coming in from the southwest? 633 00:36:47,180 --> 00:36:49,980 Well, they've asked us if we wanted to go to a meeting down there. 634 00:36:49,980 --> 00:36:51,700 It's kind of a national thing. 635 00:36:51,700 --> 00:36:53,940 There's going to be water company bosses there. 636 00:36:53,940 --> 00:36:56,900 And, I mean, I think we should go, shouldn't we? 637 00:36:56,900 --> 00:36:59,780 We've done a huge amount of research at the UK Council of Water 638 00:36:59,780 --> 00:37:03,780 on levels of public trust in the water industry. 639 00:37:03,780 --> 00:37:07,260 And what we've found generally is that levels of public trust 640 00:37:07,260 --> 00:37:09,260 are actually pretty high. 641 00:37:09,260 --> 00:37:12,060 No, no... Well, you might laugh, but, but... 642 00:37:12,060 --> 00:37:14,660 Guy, I actually... I do get it. 643 00:37:14,660 --> 00:37:17,500 There's been a lot of pain. There's been a lot of frustration. 644 00:37:17,500 --> 00:37:20,300 Yeah. We have the only bathing status river in this country. 645 00:37:20,300 --> 00:37:23,940 We have 2,000 people there in the summer with their kids, 646 00:37:23,940 --> 00:37:27,420 with fishing nets, sitting amongst turds. 647 00:37:27,420 --> 00:37:29,700 We're all passionate about the environment. 648 00:37:29,700 --> 00:37:31,580 We're passionate about water quality. 649 00:37:31,580 --> 00:37:33,900 It's the driving force behind what we do. 650 00:37:33,900 --> 00:37:39,260 No...! Can you answer why, then, my son's been so ill from 2022 651 00:37:39,260 --> 00:37:44,060 after a day on the beach and then contracted hepatitis A? 652 00:37:44,060 --> 00:37:48,940 That is the week before we went on our holiday. 653 00:37:48,940 --> 00:37:51,780 That's the week after, in hospital. 654 00:37:51,780 --> 00:37:55,260 That's a week later when he's starting to get jaundice 655 00:37:55,260 --> 00:37:57,500 and he's starting to get bilirubin. 656 00:37:57,500 --> 00:38:00,500 And that - that's from something called cholestasis, 657 00:38:00,500 --> 00:38:02,500 which affects your gall bladder. 658 00:38:02,500 --> 00:38:04,740 He itched like crazy. 659 00:38:04,740 --> 00:38:07,220 These scars are still around. 660 00:38:07,220 --> 00:38:09,380 He can't stand without them hurting. 661 00:38:09,380 --> 00:38:13,780 Through school, I missed about, probably three or four months. 662 00:38:13,780 --> 00:38:17,100 And even when I was at school, I was that tired 663 00:38:17,100 --> 00:38:18,660 I was just dropping to sleep. 664 00:38:18,660 --> 00:38:21,020 I couldn't remember half the stuff I learnt, 665 00:38:21,020 --> 00:38:23,860 and it took a long time to sort of build back up 666 00:38:23,860 --> 00:38:26,180 a sort of friendship group. 667 00:38:26,180 --> 00:38:27,500 Um... 668 00:38:28,780 --> 00:38:31,540 ...and it also led to like a lot of bullying, people saying, 669 00:38:31,540 --> 00:38:34,500 "Oh, you went in the wa... all this dirty water, 670 00:38:34,500 --> 00:38:36,940 "with human poo in it and stuff like that." 671 00:38:36,940 --> 00:38:40,220 I used to do a lot of farming, helping my dad. 672 00:38:40,220 --> 00:38:41,780 It just wipes you out. You've got no energy. 673 00:38:41,780 --> 00:38:43,340 You can't do anything. 674 00:38:43,340 --> 00:38:46,620 You just... you just had to stop. 675 00:38:46,620 --> 00:38:48,620 Every feedback that you give us is, 676 00:38:48,620 --> 00:38:50,500 you know, really, really important to us. 677 00:38:50,500 --> 00:38:51,820 I didn't know at the time, 678 00:38:51,820 --> 00:38:53,980 but Surfers Against Sewage explained that there was 679 00:38:53,980 --> 00:38:57,660 342 hours of raw sewage 680 00:38:57,660 --> 00:38:59,980 that was released into the beach that I was swimming on. 681 00:38:59,980 --> 00:39:03,180 This particular strep bacteria entered my bloodstream 682 00:39:03,180 --> 00:39:05,340 and started growing on my heart valve, 683 00:39:05,340 --> 00:39:07,340 so I had to have a heart replacement. 684 00:39:07,340 --> 00:39:09,500 I was in hospital for six weeks. 685 00:39:09,500 --> 00:39:12,380 I ended up having open-heart surgery. 686 00:39:12,380 --> 00:39:14,500 The health and wellbeing of our customers 687 00:39:14,500 --> 00:39:16,300 is at the forefront of what we do, 688 00:39:16,300 --> 00:39:19,460 and hearing stories like this is incredibly important to us. 689 00:39:19,460 --> 00:39:20,780 I was ignored! We can reflect on them. 690 00:39:20,780 --> 00:39:22,860 My story wasn't even replied to. Lessons will be learnt. 691 00:39:22,860 --> 00:39:24,500 We can reflect on them going forwards. 692 00:39:24,500 --> 00:39:25,580 You've had your say. 693 00:39:25,580 --> 00:39:28,500 Now listen to someone who's worked in the water industry 694 00:39:28,500 --> 00:39:30,260 for 40 years of his life 695 00:39:30,260 --> 00:39:31,940 Prior to privatisation, 696 00:39:31,940 --> 00:39:34,500 if the infrastructure needed upgrading, it got it. 697 00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:37,300 If it needed bits of plant to be replaced, it got it. 698 00:39:37,300 --> 00:39:40,100 It was run like a military operation. 699 00:39:40,100 --> 00:39:41,940 Macquarie's come along. 700 00:39:41,940 --> 00:39:43,460 God help us. 701 00:39:43,460 --> 00:39:45,260 Asset-stripped it, 702 00:39:45,260 --> 00:39:47,980 sold land, sold pumping stations, 703 00:39:47,980 --> 00:39:49,780 built blocks of flats onto it 704 00:39:49,780 --> 00:39:51,900 and decimated our infrastructure. 705 00:39:51,900 --> 00:39:53,860 This falls back to the government 706 00:39:53,860 --> 00:39:57,580 to renationalise this industry ASAP. 707 00:39:57,580 --> 00:40:01,340 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 708 00:40:01,340 --> 00:40:05,020 Get rid of the people who have asset-stripped it, 709 00:40:05,020 --> 00:40:06,900 stripped it of millions of pounds. 710 00:40:06,900 --> 00:40:08,860 All your profits, all your bonuses. 711 00:40:08,860 --> 00:40:12,140 Keir Starmer, Steve Reed, the invisible man - 712 00:40:12,140 --> 00:40:15,460 do your job and renationalise the water industry. 713 00:40:15,460 --> 00:40:17,780 Well... CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 714 00:40:24,100 --> 00:40:26,220 Mistakes are made, 715 00:40:26,220 --> 00:40:28,900 but I would say this - and I'd happily go on the record - 716 00:40:28,900 --> 00:40:33,900 I would drink water out of any tap in the United Kingdom. 717 00:40:33,900 --> 00:40:36,980 Sorry, would you come to Brixham and have a glass of our water? 718 00:40:36,980 --> 00:40:39,420 Um... Last year in May, 719 00:40:39,420 --> 00:40:41,980 we had an outbreak of cryptosporidium, 720 00:40:41,980 --> 00:40:44,060 as Susan Davy knows. 721 00:40:44,060 --> 00:40:48,780 It's obviously a privilege and a huge responsibility 722 00:40:48,780 --> 00:40:51,260 to run a water company. 723 00:40:51,260 --> 00:40:53,820 And it's one that I take very, very seriously. 724 00:40:53,820 --> 00:40:56,860 I was poisoned by cryptosporidium in the water. 725 00:40:56,860 --> 00:40:58,660 I was ill for such a very long time, 726 00:40:58,660 --> 00:40:59,780 six months or more. 727 00:40:59,780 --> 00:41:01,540 My body was attacking itself. 728 00:41:01,540 --> 00:41:03,300 My immune system was attacking itself. 729 00:41:03,300 --> 00:41:05,260 My injuries are life-changing. 730 00:41:05,260 --> 00:41:08,300 What we are committed to is improving step by step. 731 00:41:08,300 --> 00:41:09,860 And things do go wrong. 732 00:41:09,860 --> 00:41:11,900 Things go wrong. I put my hands up. 733 00:41:11,900 --> 00:41:14,780 Could you please explain to us 734 00:41:14,780 --> 00:41:17,220 why you got a 58% pay rise? 735 00:41:17,220 --> 00:41:21,500 I don't actually set my pay. 736 00:41:21,500 --> 00:41:24,860 I don't, actually. It's not down to me how much I'm paid. 737 00:41:24,860 --> 00:41:26,740 The amount you're talking about 738 00:41:26,740 --> 00:41:29,460 will actually be a cost of living increase. 739 00:41:29,460 --> 00:41:31,420 Yeah, yeah. LAUGHTER 740 00:41:31,420 --> 00:41:33,820 You earn 860 grand a year. 741 00:41:33,820 --> 00:41:36,700 We don't have a choice in our water provider. 742 00:41:36,700 --> 00:41:38,140 I come from Henley. 743 00:41:38,140 --> 00:41:39,860 We're in the Thames region. 744 00:41:39,860 --> 00:41:41,460 I know Ash and Peter well. 745 00:41:41,460 --> 00:41:43,780 How have we arrived in a situation 746 00:41:43,780 --> 00:41:48,100 where a privatised water industry is scamming the public, 747 00:41:48,100 --> 00:41:51,380 is taking off enormous profits and dividends for shareholders, 748 00:41:51,380 --> 00:41:53,660 paying huge bonuses to executives, 749 00:41:53,660 --> 00:41:56,020 and our children are getting vomiting and diarrhoea 750 00:41:56,020 --> 00:41:57,820 from doing what should come naturally? 751 00:41:57,820 --> 00:41:59,580 We do not trust you. APPLAUSE 752 00:41:59,580 --> 00:42:03,900 Not one water company executive has ever been prosecuted 753 00:42:03,900 --> 00:42:07,380 and served prison time, quite honestly, which they should. 754 00:42:07,380 --> 00:42:11,180 APPLAUSE 755 00:42:14,060 --> 00:42:15,940 There you go. I'll put your tea there. 756 00:42:15,940 --> 00:42:17,940 PHONE VIBRATES 757 00:42:17,940 --> 00:42:19,740 Sorry, sorry, sorry. 758 00:42:19,740 --> 00:42:21,180 SHE SIGHS 759 00:42:21,180 --> 00:42:22,700 Yeah, hello? Pete, Pete. Listen to me. 760 00:42:22,700 --> 00:42:23,740 Mickey. Yeah. 761 00:42:23,740 --> 00:42:25,220 I haven't got much time, all right? 762 00:42:25,220 --> 00:42:27,500 River Ray, outside Swindon. 763 00:42:27,500 --> 00:42:29,940 A sewage mains exploded. 764 00:42:29,940 --> 00:42:31,540 It's a crime scene, mate. 765 00:42:31,540 --> 00:42:33,580 You've got to get down there right now before they clear it up. 766 00:42:33,580 --> 00:42:35,700 And, Pete, listen. Thank you. 767 00:42:35,700 --> 00:42:37,260 You're a 21-carat geezer. 768 00:42:37,260 --> 00:42:38,580 Yeah. So are you, Mickey. 769 00:43:05,980 --> 00:43:07,940 The river's gone, Ash. I mean... 770 00:43:09,860 --> 00:43:12,220 That's... And it's not coming back. 771 00:43:22,460 --> 00:43:23,980 How many do you reckon? 772 00:43:25,460 --> 00:43:27,500 What, killed? Mm. 773 00:43:27,500 --> 00:43:29,860 ASH SIGHS Hundreds, thousands. 774 00:43:29,860 --> 00:43:31,820 Thousands of babies, definitely. 775 00:43:36,860 --> 00:43:39,340 What? Ash, I'm scared that... 776 00:43:41,060 --> 00:43:42,420 ...we're running out of time. 777 00:43:44,300 --> 00:43:45,580 What do you mean by that? 778 00:43:45,580 --> 00:43:48,620 That we're running out of time to make a difference. 779 00:43:50,260 --> 00:43:51,900 What are you talking about? Look at this. 780 00:43:51,900 --> 00:43:54,500 Look at this we've got. This is... This is the best stuff so far. 781 00:43:54,500 --> 00:43:56,740 But nothing's going to happen, is it, Ash? 782 00:43:56,740 --> 00:43:58,580 What do you mean? 783 00:43:58,580 --> 00:44:01,900 Thames Water, they're going to make a statement saying that 784 00:44:01,900 --> 00:44:05,500 the environment is their number one priority. 785 00:44:05,500 --> 00:44:10,180 And the agency, they're just going to launch an investigation 786 00:44:10,180 --> 00:44:13,020 that we'll never hear about again. 787 00:44:13,020 --> 00:44:17,620 And they're... Well, they're acting as though we don't exist. 788 00:44:17,620 --> 00:44:18,660 So what are you saying? 789 00:44:20,100 --> 00:44:24,740 I... I don't know how long we've got. 790 00:44:25,980 --> 00:44:27,900 We're not going to make a difference. 791 00:44:27,900 --> 00:44:30,620 There's no time left to make a difference. 792 00:44:30,620 --> 00:44:33,220 What are you talking about? Look at this we just shot. 793 00:44:35,220 --> 00:44:38,620 But it doesn't matter. This is not the time to pack it in! 794 00:44:38,620 --> 00:44:40,500 But it doesn't matter what we show them. 795 00:44:40,500 --> 00:44:42,100 It doesn't matter. I mean, we could show them 796 00:44:42,100 --> 00:44:43,580 dead bodies floating down the river, 797 00:44:43,580 --> 00:44:46,180 they still wouldn't do anything about it, would they? 798 00:44:46,180 --> 00:44:48,060 Right. We just go back, 799 00:44:48,060 --> 00:44:50,780 you go and watch some bloody jazz. 800 00:44:50,780 --> 00:44:54,340 When you think you're beaten, you don't give in. 801 00:44:54,340 --> 00:44:56,660 We're going to the right channels, we're doing the right thing 802 00:44:56,660 --> 00:44:58,340 and nothing's coming back, 803 00:44:58,340 --> 00:45:00,740 and nothing's come back for years. 804 00:45:00,740 --> 00:45:02,180 So what do you want to do? 805 00:45:03,820 --> 00:45:05,460 It's exhausting. 806 00:45:05,460 --> 00:45:07,060 We get nothing back. 807 00:45:07,060 --> 00:45:08,260 I'm not stopping. 808 00:45:09,780 --> 00:45:11,380 I can't. 809 00:45:11,380 --> 00:45:13,940 PHONE VIBRATES 810 00:45:21,620 --> 00:45:23,300 Hello? Yeah. No... 811 00:45:23,300 --> 00:45:25,060 Yeah, we're on our way back. 812 00:45:41,820 --> 00:45:43,740 May 2020. 813 00:45:43,740 --> 00:45:47,140 Subject - Environment Agency complicit in lawbreaking. 814 00:45:47,140 --> 00:45:49,180 "Dear Sir James, over the past two years, 815 00:45:49,180 --> 00:45:51,700 "Professor Peter Hammond and I have been documenting 816 00:45:51,700 --> 00:45:53,780 "chronic offending by Thames Water. 817 00:45:55,100 --> 00:45:56,580 "Thames have been using our river 818 00:45:56,580 --> 00:45:59,540 "as a cheap way to carry raw sewage out to sea 819 00:45:59,540 --> 00:46:01,740 "and making vast profits doing so. 820 00:46:01,740 --> 00:46:05,340 "The Environment Agency has been turning a blind eye 821 00:46:05,340 --> 00:46:07,820 "and misrepresenting facts to the public." 822 00:46:24,420 --> 00:46:25,420 Peter! 823 00:46:28,340 --> 00:46:29,860 Peter. 824 00:46:29,860 --> 00:46:32,580 It's the middle of the night. 825 00:46:32,580 --> 00:46:33,820 What are you doing? 826 00:46:36,740 --> 00:46:38,820 I was worried. I couldn't sleep. 827 00:46:40,260 --> 00:46:41,740 Worried about what? 828 00:46:45,940 --> 00:46:48,340 About all the things that... 829 00:46:48,340 --> 00:46:49,980 All the things that live in the river. 830 00:46:53,260 --> 00:46:55,140 You didn't put your hands in it, did you? 831 00:46:57,260 --> 00:46:58,860 No. 832 00:46:58,860 --> 00:47:00,060 OK. 833 00:47:02,980 --> 00:47:05,620 There's nothing you can do now. 834 00:47:05,620 --> 00:47:06,860 I know. 835 00:47:08,220 --> 00:47:10,100 I know. 836 00:47:10,100 --> 00:47:11,220 OK. 837 00:47:12,300 --> 00:47:16,220 So shall we go back to bed? 838 00:47:16,220 --> 00:47:17,900 Yeah. Yeah? 839 00:48:30,780 --> 00:48:34,100 We have the best quality water since the Industrial Revolution. 840 00:48:34,100 --> 00:48:35,620 The water's turned brown. 841 00:48:35,620 --> 00:48:38,460 From today, we are ending on-site inspections 842 00:48:38,460 --> 00:48:40,340 for Cats 3 and 4. 843 00:48:40,340 --> 00:48:42,900 What exactly do you want us to do? 844 00:48:44,180 --> 00:48:46,540 Reuben! 845 00:48:47,740 --> 00:48:49,260 We need another whistle-blower. 846 00:48:49,260 --> 00:48:50,500 The regulation isn't real. 847 00:48:50,500 --> 00:48:52,540 The government want us to look like a regulator, 848 00:48:52,540 --> 00:48:53,900 but they won't let us do our job. 849 00:48:53,900 --> 00:48:58,940 You have a duty not to disclose confidential information 850 00:48:58,940 --> 00:49:01,740 to anyone not authorised to receive it! 851 00:50:23,020 --> 00:50:26,020 Subtitles by Red Bee Media